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The Wiggin Sessions

S3:E3 The Real Anthony Fauci

By January 9, 2023March 8th, 2023No Comments

The Real Anthony Fauci

S3:E3 Featuring film-maker, Jeff Hays

Hosted by Addison Wiggin


Addison Wiggin

Addison Wiggin is an American writer, publisher, and filmmaker. He was the founder of Agora Financial and publisher for 18 years. An acclaimed New York Times best-selling author, his books include: Financial Reckoning DayEmpire of DebtThe Demise of the Dollar, and The Little Book of the Shrinking Dollar. Addison is also the writer and executive producer of the documentary I.O.U.S.A., an exposé on the national debt, shortlisted for an Academy Award in 2008. He lives in Baltimore, Maryland with his family. Addison started his latest project, The Wiggin Sessions, powered by The Essential Investor, in March 2020. He films from a homegrown studio in his basement.

Jeff Hays

Jeff Hays, an award winning filmmaker, author, and television producer since the early nineties, gained national attention with Fahrenhype 9/11 (2004), a response to Michael Moore’s Fahrenheit 9/11.

View Transcript

Jeff: Since you and I had saw each other, you were a wine aficionado and I didn’t drink wine. And in the last six years it’s become maybe my most expensive habit.

Addison: Oh really?

Jeff (00:00:15):

Addison (00:00:16):
Yeah. I wouldn’t call myself a wine aficionado, but I do like wine. I try things from different parts of the world.

Jeff (00:00:26):
Yeah. We did a series called Wine Revealed, and we toured and filmed at, I don’t know, 25, 28 wineries in Italy.

Addison (00:00:36):
Oh, really? Nice.

Jeff (00:00:39):
I really learned a lot about Italian wines. I’m ignorant about most of the rest of the world, and I don’t drink any wines from the US, but I know a lot about Italian wines.

Addison (00:00:50):
Oh, that’s nice. Yeah. One of my favorite wines is Montepulciano, because I like to say it.

Jeff (00:01:02):
Yeah, the Brunello from Montepulciano is my favorite. There’s a winery called Pader La Ripe, that’s owned by Francesco Elie III, of the Elie Coffee fortune. He’s a billionaire, and he made a goal about 15 years ago to make the best Brunello in the world. And the winery will never make money. It has zero chance, but he doesn’t care. He’s just making, and so it’s a biodynamic, organic, beautiful Brunello, and it’s all allocated. And so I have a friend who’s a wine importer that he also owns a restaurant, so when he orders his restaurant orders for his restaurant, I’m like a second restaurant and brings in cases. That’s one of my favorites.

Addison (00:02:03):
Sounds pretty good. I spent a lot of time thinking about wine.

Jeff (00:02:10):
Yeah. It’s amazing. Something that meant nothing to me, and I started out drinking cheap wine and couldn’t tell the difference. And I watched my daily bottles grow up in expense, while all of a sudden I went, “Okay, this has become an expensive habit.”

Addison (00:02:30):
Yeah. I think I’m at like $12,000 a year.

Jeff (00:02:35):

Addison (00:02:36):
All right, let’s get started with the project. I think this is exciting.

Jeff (00:02:42):
Thank you.

Addison (00:02:43):
Sound good?

Jeff (00:02:46):
I don’t think we need you, do we?

Elliott (00:02:49):
[inaudible 00:02:50] recording. Okay. But what I found is [inaudible 00:02:52], so you can text me.

Jeff (00:02:53):
Yeah. Thank you.

Elliott (00:02:57):
Will that work? Just text me [inaudible 00:02:59].

Jeff (00:02:58):
Yeah. Thank you. Just text. Thank you, Elliot.

Addison (00:03:03):
Dude, do you have an assistant?

Jeff (00:03:07):
I have a 10,000 square foot sound stage and studio, and I’m in the control room of the recording studio. We’ve got a 38-foot green screen. I’ve got seven full-time editors. And Elliot, who you were talking to, manages our junior editors. I’ve got 150 Terabyte network server. We’re cranking out a lot of content.

Addison (00:03:40):
Yeah. That’s awesome. Yes. It’s where you wanted to get to when we last met, right?

Jeff (00:03:44):
It was a dim vision that I look back on and man, it’s all here. It’s what I dreamed of when I was 17 years old.

Addison (00:03:53):
I went the opposite way. I had 330 employees at one point, and I now have three.

Jeff (00:04:01):
And that’s a lot better, isn’t it?

Addison (00:04:05):
Yeah. And I have just a group, a network of gig workers. So much better.

Jeff (00:04:14):
Yeah, we had a real good experience with Katie, and Joe.

Addison (00:04:21):
Those guys are all great. And they all went and gigged themselves.

Jeff (00:04:27):
We had a real good experience with them and really liked that crew that you built there.

Addison (00:04:33):
Yeah. Great team.

Jeff (00:04:35):
And was sorry to see that really. It looked from the outside, looked like it unraveled, but it was also, I looked at the wisdom of these guys had a lot to protect.

Addison (00:04:50):
Yeah. I want to say something like, it in-raveled, they forced the changes. Which is okay with me because I know them and I know what they were trying to do, and it didn’t really bother me that much.

Jeff (00:05:04):
Well, you were always pretty unflappable anyway.

Addison (00:05:09):
Well maybe.

Jeff (00:05:10):
In all my experience you, you’ve been the same every time. It’s like good time, bad time.

Addison (00:05:16):
Man, we just do what we do. All right, I was going to show this book cause this is what it’s based on, right?

Jeff (00:05:23):

Addison (00:05:24):
Yeah. Okay. Let me just get started. And it’s a pretty general conversation. Did you get the questions?

Jeff (00:05:32):
I did. The only one not that I have no good response to is mass formation.

Addison (00:05:41):
Oh yeah. It’ll be a conversation, I won’t bring that up.

Jeff (00:05:47):
I’ll just appear ignorant because I am. Robert Malone talked to me about that, but I didn’t know what he was talking about.

Addison (00:05:54):
Yeah, it’s just an idea that people when they watch mass media and that kind of thing, that they get an idea in their head, and then people share it around, and it becomes an idea that doesn’t have any basis in reality. But people share it so they make it seem like it’s a thing. And Desmond wrote a book on it. And actually, I like the book because he comes from a classical background, and the references that he makes, and the way that he talks about it makes sense to me. But we don’t have to talk about that. All right. Welcome to the Wiggin Sessions. I’m Addison Wiggin. Today I have with me a friend Jeff Hayes who’s a filmmaker, and he has produced recently a film based on this book by Robert Kennedy, ‘The Real Anthony Fauci.’ We’re going to talk about that today. But before we even get to that, let’s meet. Let’s meet ya. Jay, welcome to the show. Thank you. We’ve known each other for what? I don’t know, maybe a decade or something.

Jeff (00:07:11):

Addison (00:07:13):
How are you doing?

Jeff (00:07:14):
I’m just doing perfect. Thank you.

Addison (00:07:17):
All right. Let’s talk about your background a little bit, just so that we know what your interest is in Anthony Fauci. But you also did a project called Fahrenheit. Remind me how that goes.

Jeff (00:07:36):
Fahrenhype 9/11.

Addison (00:07:37):
Fahrenhype, that’s right.

Jeff (00:07:39):
Yeah. That was my first documentary that, if you remember when Michael Moore did the movie Fahrenheit 911, at that time in 2004, there was no Republican response, and that made sense. It’s best just to let these things flame up and then burn out on their own, and you don’t give it more press. Except this time it didn’t work. They thought it would do about $20 Million in sales at the box office, and instead it did $100 Million in sales, and it crossed the chasm and was this huge cultural event, and there was no response. And so with the colossal ego that sometimes I can muster, I jumped in and said, “I’ll do a response to this.” And so I did a film, ‘Fahrenhype 911’, and we put Anne Coulter in it to make everybody mad. Senator Zell Miller was in it. We had some really great people, and we got it out and it took me, it was the fastest film I’d ever made. I made it in 28 days. On the 29th day, Patrick Byrne at called me and asked me to come show it to him.

I had already gotten Walmart to buy 100,000 copies of the DVD, and Patrick called me in his office and was watching the film. He goes, “Well, you’re going to walk out of here today with an order for at least $1 Million. And sometimes I know when to shut up. I went, “Well, that’s good.” I shut up. And then we talked further and he bought the film from me for $2.3 Million that day. And he was talking, he knew I used to be wealthy and was no longer wealthy. And he goes, “Well are you a millionaire?” And I’m like, “No, I’m not a millionaire anymore.” And he says, “Well, how much of this do you get?” And I figured it out. And I said, “About $830,000.” He said, “How much would I have to pay for you to walk out the door a millionaire?”

And I thought about it, I said, $2.6 Million. He raised the price on himself from $2.3 Million to $2.6 Million so I would walk out the door a millionaire that day. And obviously I’m a Patrick Byrne fan since that day in 2004. The next year I did a film using really the proceeds from that event. I did a film called ‘On Native Soil’, which was shortlisted for an Academy Award with Kevin Costner and Hillary Swank. And I know you’ve been shortlisted for an Academy Award, so it’s not an easy task. It launched me into the documentary space.

Addison (00:10:35):
It doesn’t make a lot of sense when it happens, but why not accept it? You’ve been making some films, I know that you’ve been working with Revealed.

Jeff (00:10:49):
Yeah, we started a company called Revealed Films. I have two companies, Jeff Hayes Films and Revealed films. And in Revealed, we get into some controversial medical issues. We’ve done a series called ‘Vaccines [inaudible 00:11:06].’ And it’s really, my intention is to give a voice to.

Addison (00:11:13):
Hey Jeff, can we pause for a second? My dog is barking.

Jeff (00:11:17):

Addison (00:11:18):
Hold on one second. Sorry about that.

Jeff (00:12:04):
You want me to pick up right there?

Addison (00:12:05):
Yep. Well, you can just pick up with how you got into film and all that.

Jeff (00:12:13):
With Revealed, our goal is always to give a voice to the topics that’s not being heard or that’s being suppressed. And that led me to an interest in Bobby Kennedy’s book. I was stunned at the information that was in there, and it was a fabulous book. You figure that book right there is the most suppressed book in the history of our lives, that it sold a million copies in 2022. It was 17 weeks on the New York Times bestseller list. And there still, to this day, has not been one major media review of the book. Bobby used to be liberal royalty. He wrote an op-ed piece at least twice a year for the New York Times.

There was nobody that he couldn’t pick up the phone and reach. He was loved by Hollywood. He was head of Water Keeper’s Alliance, where he was responsible for cleaning up the Hudson Valley. He was an environmentalist and a lawyer who was suing polluters, and he was revered. Once he got involved in the vaccine controversy, he became persona non-grata, and everyone turned their backs on him. The New York Times won’t return his phone call, no more op-ed pieces, nothing. And that book right there, bookstores wouldn’t carry it. And still it had sold a million copies. It is I think it is 2,700, over 2,700 references in there. He makes some very bold statements about what happened, and especially about Fauci. And no one has ever sued him. It is all documented. I read the book. To me, Fauci was this avuncular, grandfatherly seemed rational person that I saw. I wasn’t really familiar with him.

When I read about his history and the damage he did during the AIDS crisis, this is a book that needed to be written. And I’ve known Bobby for years. I called him and asked if he would let me make a documentary of it, and he agreed, and agreed to host it, and we were off to the races.

Addison (00:14:51):
Why do you think that the information gets suppressed? That’s the word that you use. I’m curious, there’s a discussion of whether people that were involved in managing the pandemic or not, and Fauci in particular, but there’s other people that are involved too. Why do you use the word suppressed?

Jeff (00:15:22):
Yeah, it’s actually, it was the plan. It was planned to be suppressed. We opened the film with something called an Event 201, which was recorded, and it was a tabletop war game that they played. And sitting around the table was people from the New York Times, people from the press. You had public health policy experts, people from the WHO funded by Bill Gates. And amazingly enough, we have one of the hosts is from the CIA. Now, why is the CIA there? What do they do to have to do with public health policy? But this game plays out and it’s recorded and we show it.

Jeff (00:16:04):
… but this game plays out, and it’s recorded, and we show it. They do fake news stories. They did this whole mock-up, and it was about a coronavirus. By the way, this occurred 60 days before the coronavirus, the words were ever said in the public before we had COVID. 60 days before, they’re playing this game out.

One of the things they’re talking about around the table is they’ve got to build public trust, and they’ve got to control the narrative and suppress the vaccine misinformation. Now that the Twitter files are coming out… Just this week, the rest of the Fauci files from Twitter are coming out, and we can see the direct involvement from the US government, multiple departments. One of the big problems Twitter had was that they had so many government departments, they were trying to say, “Could we just have one department telling us who to ban and who to shadow ban?”

I used to spend $100,000 a month on Facebook ads. I can’t buy an ad on Facebook anymore. I have a series we did with Revealed called Christ Revealed, and I can’t even buy an ad on Facebook for Christ Revealed because we did the film, Vaccines Revealed.

I had Vimeo. Their service, I just used for storage and paid them $80,000 a year for storage and some bandwidth. I got a notice from them a year and a half ago to take that off of my servers. I had vaccine misinformation, according to them, on their servers. I had three days to get it off without identifying what it was, or they were going to delete my account.

When we were making this film with Bobby, one of the editors in California shipped me some footage for me to review of a section that he edited, and it had Bobby in it. It was on a private website on YouTube, a private page that was password protected, and YouTube removed it from a private page for violating their policy. This is not conjecture. There was suppression. It is an astounding suppression.

The government has asked… They literally got the head of these media companies together and said, “If you allow this information out there, you’re killing people.” Meanwhile, everything that Bobby said all along has turned out to be true. In Monday night’s football game when we have a football player dropping, well, with a heart attack, the truth is no one knows why that happened. We can’t say, “Well, he was vaccinated on December 26th. It was because of the vaccination.” That would be asinine to make that comment.

At the same time, my Twitter feed was flooded with people saying, “This had nothing to do with the vaccine.” That’s another asinine comment. We don’t know why that happened to that player, but we’re seeing this over and over in places that we haven’t ever seen it before, and people are afraid to have the conversation.

Addison (00:19:28):
Why is it that you think that the whatever, the higher-ups at media companies, which are mostly private networks… and that’s where they stand behind they get to make the rules for who does or doesn’t make comments on the… I don’t know. Twitter is a big thing because of Elon Musk, but why is it that you think that media execs would censor material at all? What’s going on there?

Jeff (00:20:08):
So let me stay out of the why, and I’ll just tell you some facts. I really try to avoid… Bobby was scrupulous in not attributing what people are thinking and just saying, “This is what happened.” I’m trying to follow his lead on that.

Amazingly enough, Bobby Kennedy Jr. was lifetime dear friends with Roger Ailes. Now, if you can ever imagine two more unlikely partner. Here’s the head of the creator of Fox News and Bobby Kennedy Jr., a liberal royalty. Roger Ailes produced a show with him in Africa when Bobby was, I don’t know, 18, 19 years old, and they camped out together for a couple of months and became lifelong friends.

Once Bobby got involved in the vaccine movement, he asked to be interviewed, and Roger Ailes says, “Not a chance in the world. Do you realize that if I put you on TV saying this stuff, I would be in Murdoch’s office the next day because they would’ve had a call from Pfizer and Johnson & Johnson saying, ‘You can’t have this?'” These guys are major advertisers across the board.

Now, you add to that Bill Gates is massively invested in vaccines, said it was the best investment of his life. Instead of getting a 20-to-one return, he got a 200-to-one return. He’s been active in funding the WHO and implementing vaccine policies all over the world. We’ve used Africa as our testing ground for vaccines. We go into a country in Africa and say, “Hey, if you want our help and our economic aid, you have to accept our vaccine policy.”

Then we end up testing the AIDS vaccine. We’ve been promised an AIDS vaccine for 40 years. They’ve spent $16 billion to create a vaccine that we still don’t have. Meanwhile, we’ve killed hundreds of thousands of people administering test vaccines in Africa on pregnant women, on children, on children against their will, on a population that can’t defend itself.

If you look at what happened during COVID, billions of dollars were made. Moderna minted five billionaires, and this is a company that had never released a product successfully before, and suddenly we have five billionaires in that one company. You look at the investors in them, and they’re the same tech investors that are running big tech.

Addison (00:23:08):
I’m just curious, how is it that you… You say you know Robert Kennedy, and obviously, this book is pretty robust. He spent a lot of time in it, writing it. How do you know him, and how did you come about talking to him about making the film?

Jeff (00:23:34):
Yes, so that-

Addison (00:23:36):
I mean, that’s like I worked with you in the past, and getting all the pieces together to make a film is not an easy task.

Jeff (00:23:45):
Yeah, yeah. This was complex. I met Bobby in 2013. He was running Waterkeeper Alliance, which was an environmental group or environmental activists. They go out and actively sue companies that are polluting. He was running that, and mercury was one of the big problems that they’re finding in our rivers.

He would give these speeches, and he kept having these mothers come up to him and say, “Hey, you’re big on getting mercury out of our rivers because it’s getting into our drinking water and affecting people. You need to look at vaccines because our kids are being poisoned with mercury in their vaccines.” He kept hearing this over, and over, and over. Some of these mothers, and I know some of these women from that period, they were relentless. And so Bobby started to investigate it. He wrote an article that was published in Rolling Stone and Salon about mercury and vaccines, and then he just got barbecued. It was really difficult.

I was doing a film in 2013 called Bought, and I asked him to be in it. We had a phone conversation, and he passed on doing it. He wanted to write a book that was all scientifically backed, and he said, “This is going to be my big foray. This is the tactic I want to take, and I don’t want to get into something controversial.” So he wrote a book, I think it was called Thimerosal and something. Silence. Nobody read it. Nobody wrote an article about it. It was just silence. Nothing happened.

And so we filmed him off and on through the years. I knew his sister, Rory, who was on the board of the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences. Then amazingly enough, through another source, I was invited to dinner with Bobby’s mother, Ethel Kennedy, on the Kennedy compound, which was a surreal experience, if you can imagine-

Addison (00:26:03):
In and of itself, right?

Jeff (00:26:04):
… yeah, a bumpkin from West Texas whose dad had Barry Goldwater signs in the yard when Kennedy was running. And suddenly, I’m having dinner on meatloaf night on the Kennedy compound with Ethel Kennedy. So our lives kept intersecting.

Then when this book came out, I read it, and I realized what a fabulous documentary it would be. Then I had the trepidation of like, “Wow, do I want to step in front of this buzzsaw?” I jokingly called it my career-ending film, but the reality is I’m not Steven Spielberg. If it’s my career-ending film, I don’t know that the public would know.

Addison (00:27:00):
The other ones?

Jeff (00:27:01):
Yeah. I mean, it’s like, “Wait a minute. Jeff Hays isn’t making films anymore. Who cares?” So it is not like we’ve lost a Spielberg, but I vacillated for a month whether I wanted to do this or not. Then when we started on it in December of 2021 and worked on it all through 2022, I watched as the tide was turning and more and more information started coming out.

It used to be if you tweeted on Twitter or you said on Facebook or Instagram anything about Wuhan being the potential source of the COVID virus that that was reason to be barred. Then that information turned out to be… It’s very likely, and they changed their policy. But it used to be, if you question this Wuhan being-

Addison (00:27:58):
Whatever narrative that was there, right? Yeah.

Jeff (00:28:00):
Yeah. Then you were just gone. They erased you. Alex Berenson was removed from Twitter at the request of the White House. He sued, and Twitter settled with him, but more importantly, they gave him all this discovery. And so we now know this is what was happening. People will say, “Hey, Twitter’s a private company. They don’t have to protect your First Amendment rights,” but when it’s the government operating through these private companies, now you have a real constitutional issue.

Addison (00:28:38):
What was it like meeting Robert Kennedy for the first time?

Jeff (00:28:43):
So you’ll notice when you watch the film, he’s got a vocal disorder. He’s-

Addison (00:28:49):
Yeah, I did notice that.

Jeff (00:28:52):
Yeah, and it’s funny. It’s apparently genetic. I know one of his sisters… I noticed she has the beginnings of the same thing, and it’s when your vocal chords… They’re supposed to stay separate, and if they stick together, it takes much more effort to make sound. And so he-

Addison (00:29:11):
Oh, I wasn’t aware of that, but yeah.

Jeff (00:29:13):
He had a surgery where they inserted a titanium rod between them to try to hold them separate, and it helped a little bit. So the first time I talked to him on the phone, I thought, “Wow, is this guy 80 years old?” It’s a really old- sounding voice. It’s something that he struggles with that is almost like the Apostle Paul talks about in the Bible. He had an affliction that he wondered why God gave him this affliction.

I think of the same thing for Bobby in that he is a brilliant orator. He can stand up and speak for two hours without notes and completely capture the attention of a crowd, and he has this vocal disorder that I’m so sorry that he has to deal with. When he travels, in the same way, his father, Robert Kennedy Sr., used to travel without Secret Service protection. He used to travel and walk into the most dangerous of places.

Bobby wrote a beautiful book called American Values, and I read the book this past year. I just bought 30 copies of it to send to friends. I think it’s like how to raise a Kennedy, but his dad was bold. Bobby travels without security. It blows my mind and seems to just gracefully move through really difficult situation from people who both love his family and hate his family.

Addison (00:30:55):
As a director of the film, the topic is Anthony Fauci, but I think as much as that is the subject of the film, I think Bobby is also a subject. What was his passion for even writing the book in the first place, and what did you take from it that you thought that it would make a good documentary? Why would he do that? I mean, he’s from that class.

Jeff (00:31:28):
Yeah. This is a guy who… One of his highest values is truth, but he sees what’s happening here as a threat to democracy. It’s a much bigger story than a-

Addison (00:31:46):
You’re going to have to explain that to me because I feel like that phrase has been thrown around a lot recently, and I don’t know what it means to have a threat to democracy because challenges to the establishment are what make democracy…

Addison (00:32:03):
… punishment are what make democracy function properly. And I don’t really get when people say that. So maybe just unpack that a little.

Jeff (00:32:12):
Yeah, I agree with you because the amazing way that this… And you’re right, we may end up losing the right to even use this phrase and have it make any sense to somebody who hears it. What Bobby means when he says it is during COVID, every article in our Bill of Rights, except for the Second Amendment, was attacked and set to the side. We had 3.3 million businesses that were shut down by the government without compensation. That was one of our basic rights. We had freedom of speech that we lost. We had freedom to gather that we lost. We had freedom of religion that we were lost. So when Bobby says threat to democracy, he’s talking about to our Constitution and to our Bill of Rights. And the basic rights that this country was built on were taken away without hearing by bureaucrats. And that’s the threat. And we sat by and let this happen. And now you see other people saying freedom of speech is somehow a threat to democracy.

And they’ve usurped and taken the phrase and turned it on its head. If speech is not offensive, it doesn’t need to be protective. If it is just a recitation of the narrative, that speech doesn’t need to be protected. I remember when I was a kid, my dad hated the ACLU and I didn’t know why and I just knew it was bad. And you kind of grew up, well, yeah, the ACLU is bad. Later, I got to know Nadine Strasson, who at that time was president of the ACLU and she goes, “Look, you disagree with the ACLU. Great, you’d fit right in. Come join our board meetings. We’ve never agreed on anything.”

As I was growing up, I thought the ACLU, the biggest thing I knew them for was they were Jewish lawyers standing up for the rights of Nazis to speak. And I remember many of these cases where it was the ACLU arguing for the rights of Nazis to gather, to have rallies, to have hate speech. And these Jewish lawyers were protecting them. During COVID, the ACLU says, no, no, no, we are not standing up for somebody who has a different narrative on COVID. They have completely walked away from free speech and said, no, this speech does not need to be protected. As a result, Nadine Strauss and some of the other leaders of the ACLU have left and have started another organization to protect free speech. This is-

Addison (00:35:05):
Why do you think that is though? Explain that to me. I don’t really get it. Where did we go wrong where we decided that free speech is not something to be protected any longer? I grew up the same way that you did. Free speech was the paramount opportunity to express yourself and also protect those in your life that you cared about.

Jeff (00:35:37):
And this is totally my opinion. This is not Bobby K. This is not anybody. And as you know, I’m usually wrong about 50% of the time. So I want to give the disclaimer, hell if I know, but from my observation, it looks like to me that inadvertently Trump broke everything. And what happened to the news during Trump’s-

Addison (00:36:02):
Explain that to me.

Jeff (00:36:05):
They stopped. I read the Wall Street Journal and the New York Times every day. And during Trump’s administration, they stopped even pretending to not be biased. And their hatred for Trump was so great that truth was less important. What was important to them and their journalistic ethics, their journalistic credibility, the truth was less important than getting rid of Trump. And I watched as they start slanting in the most obvious ways from both sides are filled with election deniers and always have been since we’ve started having elections.

But you start seeing how that is described in the press, you started seeing how COVID was described in the press. And you started seeing journalistic integrity just completely disappeared. And suddenly the biggest mystery I’ve ever seen where you have Democrats and liberals hated big business and they wanted big government to protect us from big business because big business was bad. And that included greatly big pharma. And then suddenly the liberals have become the lap dogs of big pharma that it’s not even okay to utter that, hey, wait a minute, Pfizer had a lot of data showing these were very dangerous. You can’t say that. I don’t know how this switch was made where the people who hated big business and big pharma suddenly became their lap dogs. It’s been the most amazing transformation of my life.

Addison (00:37:59):
But isn’t there evidence in Bobby Kennedy’s book about how that happened? I mean, that’s what the film is about, right?

Jeff (00:38:08):
Yeah. So as you look at the film, and it makes a much better case than I do verbally because we were bringing-

Addison (00:38:22):
Well, I know what it’s like to try to film a documentary and it’s not easy.

Jeff (00:38:29):
What was great about this one, Addison, is normally you’ve got to do lots of research. And this one, the research was already done. Bobby had done meticulous research for a long period of time and we just had to go through the book and say, what do we want to capture? And the other thing was unique about this film. Normally when you’re trying to get people to film for a documentary, it’s difficult to get them to agree. And in this one, all the people that we called and there’s some astounding people in the film were eager and willing to be filmed. The difficulty was taking 600 pages of material and deciding what to leave out. Other than that, it was probably the easiest project I’ve ever done because of the cheerful willingness of all the people that we filmed and the massive amount of research already done.

Addison (00:39:29):
So among the people you interviewed, what was the consensus on the real Anthony Fauci?

Jeff (00:39:38):
So we went through different periods of his life and different experts on periods of his life. And you’ll see Celia Farber who started tracking him back… The real watershed year, the real turning point was 1984, and that’s when Tony Fauci took over the NIAID, the Infectious Disease Department for the NIH. At that time it was not an impressive department, it didn’t have a large budget, but then the AIDS epidemic happened and he wrestled control for his department. He’s a great bureaucrat. He wrestled control of the AIDS virus, got it in his department, and then proceeded to build his budget up to a billion and then $1,700,000,000. And he’s now giving away all this money for research and he’s in control. In the midst of this, we had some off-label medications that were working. If you remember the movie the Dallas Buyers Club with Matthew McConaughey where these guys are having to smuggle drugs from Mexico that were keeping people with AIDS alive.

These were known to work. Fauci wanted nothing to do with them, said there’s no studies on them, but he wouldn’t do any studies on them. Instead, he wanted to pick the AIDS drug that was the most deadly drug known to man at that time. It was a chemotherapy drug that was massively at the time, it was the most expensive drug that could be dispensed and it was the most dangerous drug. And so he went all in on that and that was the only approved treatment for AIDS. He repeated this again with the COVID crisis when we had Ivermectin and hydroxychloroquine. Both of those were pilloried. Now we now have Ivermectin is on the CDC’S list of medications to use for COVID. We were told it was horse dewormer. It’s a Nobel Prize-winning drug. Hydroxychloroquine was pilloried. They got rid of all of these and instead insisted on using [inaudible 00:41:59], which was a drug that was used… That was so deadly, they stopped using it for the Ebola virus because it was too deadly for the Ebola virus.

It was not successful and the outcomes were awful. If you look around the world and anybody, any country that followed the Fauci protocol, they had horrific results. And the countries that didn’t follow the Fauci protocol did as many as 10 to 50 times better. This is especially true in Africa. If you remember in Africa, in the early vaccine becoming available, we were worried about Africa. How are we going to get this to African nations? They don’t have the money to pay for it. How are we going to keep it refrigerated? How are we going to get it there? We were all worried about them not getting it. It turns out the countries that didn’t get the vaccine had 10 to one better outcomes than the countries that did.

Addison (00:43:00):
How did Bobby Kennedy come about all of the research that went into the book?

Jeff (00:43:07):
He’s a trial lawyer and so he’s used to reading studies. He was a part of the case on GMOs against Monsanto. He’s got numerous vaccine cases. What I like about what he does is he takes stuff out of the court of opinion and puts it in a court of law where you actually get discovery and you actually get the truth. So doing this research is a part of his daily life. And then he has the Children’s Health Defense Network where they have researchers on board that are doing this research, this film, man, I’ve never had a film fact checked like they did with this one where we went through it and it was weeks of them. No, we got this little detail wrong. We got this little detail wrong. I fell in love with this process. I wish I could do this on all my films where I have fact checkers checking every single thing I say.

Addison (00:44:09):
Yeah, I’d like to do that with my books.

Jeff (00:44:15):
I just wrote a book that’s coming out from Harper Collins in June, and if it was fact checked, it might shrink by 75%. Our memories are all subject.

Addison (00:44:28):
So take me back to the beginning. You looked at the book and you thought it would make a good documentary. What happens next of… I’m just curious, as a filmmaker myself, how do you move on?

Jeff (00:44:43):
Yes. And by the way, I want to interject here. People can see this film right now for free and we haven’t mentioned that. I’ve got it up for free. The first part of it is on Rumble, or they can see it on But I do want this film, we’re talking about it, I want people to know it’s out there and available for them to watch for free right now. We took it down for a month and then I’m putting it back up until the end of January.

Addison (00:45:12):
So just say how people can get it again.

Jeff (00:45:16):
So you can look for it on Rumble or you can go to and it’s available through the end of January to watch for free. So anyway, once Bobby agreed, and then once I found the courage to proceed, I now self-finance all my own films. So normally what you would have to do is go out and raise investor money.

Addison (00:45:44):
Find some money.

Jeff (00:45:45):
Find some money to pay for it. And so I was the only investor in this film and it was a significant portion of my net worth to make it. So that sped everything up. I didn’t have to raise money. I didn’t have to go out with a tin cup and ask somebody to help me. And then I have a studio here.

So we built a set for Bobby that you’ll see in the film. That was a set that we built. I wanted it to look like, not that we were at the White House, but that we were maybe in the residence. I wanted it to have… So we trucked in furniture from LA, from film rentals and people could see it’s a beautiful set, but literally we built that set just to film Bobby on. I wanted it to have the gravitas, to have the image of how deeply he and his family are tied into this country. And so we filmed with Bobby for about six hours and then a couple of months later filmed with him for six more hours and that made the narrative of the film. And then it’s like you have to do, you’re out on the road and filming people from New York to California and we’ve got some phenomenal experts in the film.

Addison (00:47:13):
Yeah, that’s a tough challenge to travel with your subject. I know that because I followed David Walker around for a while and he was always busy. So it was like trying to figure out how to get him into a space where you could talk to him and start creating the narrative. That’s another question I wanted to ask you. When you are creating the narrative, you have the book, you have the subject, you have the protagonist, but then what you plan never works out the same way. So then you have to go back and edit the story. You have to go find the story from there.

Jeff (00:47:58):
Yeah. We have a phrase that the best films tell you how they want to be made.

Jeff (00:48:03):
… that the best films tell you how they want to be made and [inaudible 00:48:04]-

Addison (00:48:04):
Yes. Yeah, I think that’s right.

Jeff (00:48:06):
With documentaries, when I do a scripted film, if it’s not on a script, perfect. You don’t even start. You get the script, perfect. In a documentary, you have to go where the trail takes you.

Addison (00:48:20):

Jeff (00:48:21):
And this one, we brought on a writer, Kala Mandrake, who was just fabulous and so much more talented than me. And then we actually gave her the director title on the film. Her impact was beyond what I’m capable of doing. And she was the one who wrestled these details to the ground and was staying… because we wanted to stay within the confines of the book. At the same time, there was so much there, and it’s just unruly, because when you film a live interview with somebody, they don’t say what they said in the previous interview.

Addison (00:48:59):
Yeah. And they don’t say what you expect them to say. So you end up with a whole other challenge.

Jeff (00:49:08):
Yeah. I’ve got to tell you, we’ve got seven full-time editors here, and you’ll see when the credits roll, many of my editors are redacted. They didn’t want their name on the film, because of the effect on their career. But I’m proud of these guys.

Addison (00:49:24):
Why is that? Explain that to me.

Jeff (00:49:26):
Oh, man. This is like… I’ve got another documentary that I’ve got coming out. This is not a… A controversial film like this can really damage your ability to work in the future, in documentary film. My colleagues in the documentary world, it is a profoundly liberal world. And for some reason, the liberals have taken the other side on this issue.

Addison (00:50:00):
But you’re saying, too, that Robert Kennedy is from royalty on the liberal side. And then you have to deal with the ramifications yourself. How do you reconcile those two things?

Jeff (00:50:17):
I remember a couple of years ago, there was an uproar about Jessica Biel, because Jessica Biel had been photographed with anti-vaxxer, Bobby Kennedy. It’s like literally she was attacked for being seen with him. Again, Bobby, every one of his speeches says, “I’m not an anti-vaxxer. I want to argue for safety in vaccines, and I want to clean up our corrupt CDC and NIH and FDA that have been captured… The very regulators that are supposed to oversee these industries have become subsidiaries of those industries,” and that’s what he’s about. He always says, “I vaccinated my kids. I was vaccinated when I was a kid. I’m not an anti-vaxxer.”

And then if you read anybody commenting about him, they say, “Well, last night, Robert Kennedy, anti-vaxxer.” Anyway, it doesn’t matter what he [inaudible 00:51:18]-

Addison (00:51:19):
It’s funny, I cover these topics. I write about it, and I’m talking to you about it, and I’m showing the book like this, and then I counted… I went to my primary care recently, and I’ve had 11 shots this year alone, and four of them have to do with COVID. And I’m like, all right, yep, fine. Just do whatever. I don’t care. I drink wine. I’m good.

Jeff (00:51:49):
Well, yeah. This is… We like simple answers for complex problems. And I’ve done lots of filming on vaccines. And people go, “Well, are vaccines good or bad?” And that’s a very stupid question.

Addison (00:52:08):
I think so.

Jeff (00:52:08):
It’s like what vaccine are you talking about? Are you telling me that the yellow fever vaccine is the same as chickenpox vaccine, and is the Gardasil vaccine… And who exactly are we talking about are they good for or not? Now, I can tell you, this COVID vaccine, the mRNA vaccines that you are much more flexible than I am about, we’ve had more-

Addison (00:52:37):
Not anymore.

Jeff (00:52:39):
Yeah. We’ve had more damage, documented damage from that, the mRNA vaccines than all the other vaccines put together in history. This is not a… First off, it’s not a vaccine. I just think about this. If we were giving people a smallpox vaccine and they still got smallpox and they still transmitted smallpox, I think we’d go, “Hey, maybe this isn’t a very good vaccine.” But somehow this one gets to continue to move the goalpost from if you take this vaccine, you’re not going to get COVID and you’re not going to transmit it. It’s going to stop with you. And that was the narrative, and threatened, “You must get this vaccine. If you love anybody else in your life, you have to get this vaccine.”

And to see that evolve into, well, you still might get COVID and you’re still likely to transmit it, wait a minute, when did those goalposts move? And meanwhile, billions of dollars flowed like water.

Addison (00:53:51):
Yeah. So does the film address those particular issues, the moving of the goalposts and whatnot?

Jeff (00:54:00):
It does. And we’ve got some brilliant men, Dr. Peter McCullough, Dr. Robert Malone, some of the guys that have been championing this. Peter McCullough, I don’t know if you followed him, this-

Addison (00:54:17):
No. He’s been on the show before. Yeah. I just had him on a month ago.

Jeff (00:54:21):
I love it. 650 peer reviewed papers, cardiologists. What’s so great about him, he was the elite. He was the ivory tower guy. He still treated patients, but this is the guy, he was so stunned to find himself having 20-year old fact checkers telling him his research was wrong. It was like how did… We filmed him all during this period, for numerous projects, and I watched him solely waking up to like, “Wait a minute. I can’t be an outsider. I’m an insider.” And to watch them go after him, it’s been astounding.

Addison (00:55:04):
Yeah. Malone too, right?

Jeff (00:55:06):
Malone and Pierre Kory, there’s been some people that have really stood up and really taken hard shots to their reputation and career, but to stand for truth and to get the information out there.

Addison (00:55:23):
So how does it feel as a filmmaker to try to cover all of this? Because it’s been a remarkable period in our history, and now you’ve released a film that documents it.

Jeff (00:55:39):
Yeah. I am as proud of this film as anything I’ve ever done. I’m so glad… Addison, I can’t tell you, literally there was a month where I went back and forth, I’m not going to do it. I don’t want to pay the price. Back and forth. I am so glad I was able to muster the courage to step into this arena in this way. I think it’s needed, it’s necessary. I think people have a right to make their own decisions, and we certainly need to remind our fellow men that we have the right to choose what goes into our body and not have an experimental medication mandated to us, or we lose our freedoms.

Addison (00:56:33):
Have you been, I don’t know, attacked seems like a cheap word, but have you been accosted after releasing the film? Have people come out online and challenged the purpose of the film?

Jeff (00:56:51):
No, nothing. I’ve really been-

Addison (00:56:53):

Jeff (00:56:54):

Addison (00:56:54):
I’m surprised by that.

Jeff (00:56:56):
Me too. And what’s great is that the policy of the people that are promoting the vaccine goes back to the Republican policy, when Michael Moore did the film, it’s better to just ignore it and not give it any press. And I think first off, when I walk into this situation, Bobby Kennedy is the lightning rod and he’s going to draw the lightning, not me. And so I’m under his umbrella quite a bit. And then other people just scrupulously avoid talking about it. And so I have been… I’m so thankful I haven’t been attacked. It would make a great story if I had been, but I think they’d prefer to ignore me and hope I go away.

Addison (00:57:46):
Can you compare that experience to Fahrenheit 9/11?

Jeff (00:57:50):

Addison (00:57:51):
Did you get attacked after that one?

Jeff (00:57:54):
Death threats.

Addison (00:57:55):
Oh, really?

Jeff (00:57:57):

Addison (00:57:57):

Jeff (00:57:58):
Oh, yeah.

Addison (00:57:58):
Well, you’re still here.

Jeff (00:58:00):
Yeah. And fortunately, they were just threats. But yeah, death threats, and that one was radioactive compared to this. So it’s nothing I haven’t seen before. And again, I don’t want to gloat. I am just delighted that I haven’t had that issue.

Addison (00:58:22):
Yeah. All right. So remind me again how people can watch the film.

Jeff (00:58:29):
Yeah. So you can search for it on Rumble, or you can go to our website, The, and it’s there for free until the end of January. And one thing we’re asking people-

Addison (00:58:44):

Jeff (00:58:46):
Okay. One of the things we’re asking people who view it is to please share it. It’s the only way it’s going to get out there. If it wasn’t for people like you, I would be playing in a vacuum.

Addison (00:58:57):
Yeah. Yeah. I’m curious about how you think about that too. How do you get controversial ideas in film out there? Like, you can talk to me and I can tell whatever readers are listening and whatnot. What do you do in addition to that?

Jeff (00:59:18):
Yeah. So, if… A lot has happened since we were together 10 years ago. The biggest thing is my email list is about two million people. And so we’ve got a pretty good database of people to go. And then if they’ll share, we can get this out. We also have other, like Children’s Health Defense. They’ve got a sizable email list. And so they let their people know. But it really does come from sharing and people letting their friends know.

Addison (01:00:00):
Let me ask you another question. When you talk to somebody like me, or when you’re trying to formulate your plan to get a message out, how much of it is driven by a profit motive or the passion for the project itself?

Jeff (01:00:28):
Yeah. 90% passion around it. When we were doing a PR campaign on the film, I’m doing a lot of talk radio, conservative talk radio shows, and a lot of times, when I’m on with these hosts, I realize they know way more about Fauci than I do. Some of these guys, this is their issue. And so it’s finding our groups that are willing to have the conversation. Some of them are quite willing.

Addison (01:01:03):
Well, part of what I like about the conversation that we had today is we didn’t really talk about Fauci, at all, because we’re really talking about making a film about an important period in our history. And I think that’s more of the message that I wanted to convey today, is it happened. It happened to all of us.

Jeff (01:01:32):
This is an important piece of history. And from a personal standpoint, the single fact that 3.3 million businesses were shut down by the government without compensation, when you think about dry cleaners and restaurants, this is the backbone of our country.

Addison (01:01:53):
Yeah. I know. For me, just around Baltimore, because we live here, and then my son was living in New York, and then we have property in New Jersey, and then New Hampshire. Just traveling around, now that we’re mobile again, there’s a bunch of businesses that just don’t exist anymore. A lot of them have plywood in the windows.

Jeff (01:02:23):
Yeah. These are families. We call them businesses, but behind that business is a human being and a wife, and their kid. They’re pouring their money and their heart and their hopes into, and this is something that we need to be really clear that we don’t do this again.

Addison (01:02:42):
Yeah. All right, J, thanks for catching up with me. I wish you luck with the film. I think you’re already doing okay with it.

Jeff (01:02:52):

Addison (01:02:54):
So if you want to tell people how to find it again, that would be great.

Jeff (01:02:58):
Yeah, the RealAnthonyFauciMovie. com. Thanks, Addison.

Addison (01:03:01):
Yeah. Okay.

Jeff (01:03:03):
All right.

Addison Wiggin

Addison Wiggin Addison Wiggin is an American writer, publisher, and filmmaker. He was the founder of Agora Financial and publisher for 18 years. An acclaimed New York Times best-selling author, his books include: Financial Reckoning DayEmpire of DebtThe Demise of the Dollar, and The Little Book of the Shrinking Dollar. Addison is also the writer and executive producer of the documentary I.O.U.S.A., an exposé on the national debt, shortlisted for an Academy Award in 2008. He lives in Baltimore, Maryland with his family. Addison started his latest project, The Wiggin Sessions, powered by The Essential Investor, in March 2020. He films from a homegrown studio in his basement.